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Post by Alex on Oct 11, 2018 1:14:19 GMT
Hi,
Why trying to gain fame and be part of history is looked down upon by the people of this forum?
Thanks
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Post by Immanuel on Oct 11, 2018 7:26:09 GMT
Hi,
If you have read the substance of this forum's informative posts you already have the answers to your questions, but I can tell it again, at least in brief.
It does not matter if you are recognized or even famous, the man Eysua (Jesus) is famous because many people know about him, the reason not to desire fame is not connected to the fact you become known by many people. He became part of history, but not because he sought to be popular.
The point about not seeking fame is connected to a human's instinctive desire to be top of the hierarchy and being driven to strive for popularity or might. Social status and distinction is an instinctive call connected to the fifth and sixth rule; fifth is "consider your neighbor like yourself" and sixth is "do not dominate". No matter what you can extract from those rules, it is easy to see the human body animal seeks fame due to its instincts and the instinct (the satan) should be repelled.
Ask yourself the reason to think about becoming famous and part of history, you will probably end up realizing it is for your own pleasure. Pleasure-seeking is connected to seeking to release bodily hormones which make you feel good like with a drug.
Risk is you might focus more on gaining popularity than always say the right thing, because when you say the right thing you are not always liked and for example if I wanted to become famous I could surely censor my words and hold back on the essential parts of this concept because I fear turning off people because how it sounds and hence reduce my popularity. Now I have no care for whoever does not like this and I do not seek any fame and if someone gains guidance from these words then that is fine enough. This forum contains the uncensored truth, with no beautification whatsoever and I outright tell the human is unglamorously positioned in a lowly animal, a primate, and the choice is between accepting to be that or be something better. It is not hard to understand if willing to accept it.
Anyways, this ape does seek to be top of the hierarchy or aligns itself in a hierarchy (and worships/idolizes) when finding itself defeated, the behavior is primitive and the answer to your questions is related to that.
There are some easy guidelines I have told just about everywhere on this forum. One of them is to not idolize anything of an image, be it an animate or inanimate being. Obviously you do not seek to be idolized either.
Be well
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Post by cerulean on Oct 11, 2018 7:38:54 GMT
It's not quite like that. If you're going to become famous, or part of history, it will happen. There is nothing wrong with that.
The question is how did you get there ? If by simply "trying to gain fame" then I'd question the kind of principles you will rely on to get you there, and whether or not these principles will benefit you in every step of the way ?
You can be a wealthy man, but you might also be a slave to wealth itself.
You can be a famous person, but you might also be a slave to the crowds. Always trying to please them.
And who are these people you want to get attention from ? What does it do to you if they know you or not ? How does it improve your life and how does it improve your character ?
And I'm going to refer you to the personal meditations of Marcus Aurelius, since he was a famous person himself as a roman emperor:
"Words once in common use now sound archaic. And the
names of the famous dead as well: Camillus, Caeso, Volesus,
Dentatus . . . Scipio and Cato . . . Augustus . . . Hadrian and
Antoninus, and . . .
Everything fades so quickly, turns into legend, and soon
oblivion covers it.
And those are the ones who shone. The rest—“unknown,
unasked-for” a minute after death. What is “eternal” fame?
Emptiness.
Then what should we work for?
Only this: proper understanding; unselfish action; truthful
speech. A resolve to accept whatever happens as necessary
and familiar, flowing like water from that same source and
spring. "
And there is more:
"[...] Or is it your reputation that’s bothering you? But look at how soon we’re all forgotten. The abyss of endless time that swallows it all. The emptiness of all those applauding hands. The people who praise us—how capricious they are, how arbitrary. And the tiny region in which it all takes place. The whole earth a point in space—and most of it uninhabited. How many people there will be to admire you, and who they are. So keep this refuge in mind: the back roads of your self. Above all, no strain and no stress. Be straightforward. Look at things like a man, like a human being, like a citizen, like a mortal. And among the things you turn to, these two: i. That things have no hold on the soul. They stand there unmoving, outside it. Disturbance comes only from within—from our own perceptions. ii. That everything you see will soon alter and cease to exist. Think of how many changes you’ve already seen."
It should not be hard to reach the same conclusions, in your own exercise of reason. "Exercise" of reason. And not just accepting things as good just because they feel good and give you a feeling of existence. It's a temporary one, and it's an enslaving thing. Finally, being alive and feeling alive are two different things. Most people just want to feel alive.
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Post by Immanuel on Oct 11, 2018 16:42:20 GMT
As I convey, it is the instinctive driving for fame and recognition which is the reason we shun that. If you become famous indirectly as a consequence of your deeds, such as with Eysua, this is not a problem.
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