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Post by Tommonen on Jan 26, 2020 15:13:43 GMT
If Elohim are not emotionally effected and do not have what one might call a "bleedy heart". Why assume that they give multiple life-times for one subject to try to beat their testing? If they are after the best quality, they would not bother give unlimited amount of chances for failures. If they have an elitist mindset then they will only accept they best of the subjects and that means accepting only those subjects who beat the test on their first try. Accepting subjects who did multiple tries means to accept those who are not "the best of the best", so to say.
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Post by Immanuel on Jan 26, 2020 16:19:10 GMT
They do in fact not give unlimited amount of tries. And they will accept the best of subjects, that is completely true.
My hypotheses why they arrange it this way is because they can test multiple conditions meanwhile the core of a person called the mind is being evolved. The word used for the amount of conditions means several and the commonly accepted number is around seven when it comes to several, which means there are a few but not many scenarios you encounter in the evaluation of your mind.
Furthermore the test is extremely deluding, the difficulty level is high, there could be a certain level of opportunity to progress before it is too late.
I have also argued that it is fair to give a subject multiple chances to "mess up", a person might end up in a dead end but is otherwise fairly potent.
From what I have understood only 1 single person would have made it if they judged everyone based on one lifetime, or perhaps not even that because I have no knowledge if it was his first incarnation. I am speaking of Abraham. Abraham was the first person to understand everything is about becoming sound, flawless. He preceded excellent individuals like Jesus, even. In a manner of speaking what Abraham did was more impressive than Moses and Jesus, as there was already a legacy to speak of when their time came. Abraham did understand, without any existing written, or hearsay, guidance, about the world and what it really is, and did compose the world's first piece of guidance for people.
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Post by Wanderer on Jan 26, 2020 16:35:00 GMT
Well, it contradicts my own first-hand experience with the higher-power and they directly explained to me that there is no such thing as "death" as in no-existence. They told me/explained to me directly that one cannot destroy a soul, it is laughable to think so, at least it made me have a slight grin on my face when I understood how non-intelligent/naive is to believe that a soul which is outside of time&space and is eternal can be destroyed hehe.
In addition, if we to imply that a soul develops/grows starting from a blank-seed, then that would mean we were planted here from the very beginning of the existence of mankind, that is - the very primitive humans. And after reincarnation, and another reincarnation and so on, the souls developed step-by-step throughout the existence of mankind. And now we are here, do you really think that it took us 5-8 reincarnations for us to be at our level of development that we have right now? From a blank canvas? Sound naive to me at least.
We can can talk about hundreds of reincarnations if not much more.
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Post by Immanuel on Jan 26, 2020 16:35:58 GMT
I would say you cannot kill what has not been begotten.
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Post by Immanuel on Jan 26, 2020 16:39:38 GMT
I cannot say how many reincarnations we have undergone, all from several to hundreds, but at some point it is vain to let broken souls keep trying.
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Post by Immanuel on Jan 26, 2020 16:56:49 GMT
Each of those revelations have been milestones with triggers for humanity, so in ways our evolution is guided from start to finish. The current trigger is called The Manifestation and it is meant to disclose everything like the black ink on white paper. This information is in line with our current conditioning of the minds, of those who actually have a mind to speak about.
But certain individuals have always been ahead of their time and these are those who were prophets in the past.
It is meaningless to argue whether it is 7 or 100 reincarnations, I know you will have more chances before the end of days. It is important to not rely on that you have more opportunities but rather seize the day and do something about it. The prophecies seem to have stated that more grim times are ahead from now on and so it is best to act now.
Funnily it is mankind's own technology which is causing more dire consequences now, but it is the same old instinctive mindset which causes it to be the problem it is. Technology in the hands of a primitive being is dangerous stuff.
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Post by Immanuel on Jan 26, 2020 21:56:22 GMT
Wanderer,
Your input made me reflect on the Semitic wording in the phrases I referred to earlier, which is good. I begin to realize that the correct translation of the word with root Sowm (used for words like Al-sema, Besm and esm for example) is more like criterion as in distinguishing mark.
That immediately gives a better rendition for the passages in question when it speaks about fulfilling several al-sema, obviously you are fulfilling multiple criteria rather than conditions. It effectively means it does not speak of the reincarnations per se but rather fulfilling parameters required.
Apart from that, the second chapter does confirm continuous reincarnations in a way which makes it seem plentiful, this was clear already from before. In the same context it says you bring with you to who you are from each of those incarnations, i.e. you are never an entirely new individual from time to time.
Same is for the first passage of the Manifestation which says something like "About/regarding the criterion (or distinction) of Being absolutely complete; the entitlement goes to the Being who learns to evolve" (b-esm al-la-heh al-raham-an al-raheem; al-hamid l-la-heh rabb al-aelam-een).
Obviously it is hard to perfectly translate wildly different languages, Arabic uses a greatly different manner of conveying the language compared to for example English. It is interesting that for this wildly known language, I am the only person who knows it helpfully, because people live in an illusion of knowing it as incompetent individuals did attempt to study it a long time ago but brought forth something which is nothing less than just an invention, they did guess simply too much without having a clue.
At the same time I feel it is important that I proceed with working on this.
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Post by Wanderer on Jan 29, 2020 7:31:18 GMT
Wanderer, Your input made me reflect on the Semitic wording in the phrases I referred to earlier, which is good. I begin to realize that the correct translation of the word with root Sowm (used for words like Al-sema, Besm and esm for example) is more like criterion as in distinguishing mark. That immediately gives a better rendition for the passages in question when it speaks about fulfilling several al-sema, obviously you are fulfilling multiple criteria rather than conditions. It effectively means it does not speak of the reincarnations per se but rather fulfilling parameters required. Apart from that, the second chapter does confirm continuous reincarnations in a way which makes it seem plentiful, this was clear already from before. In the same context it says you bring with you to who you are from each of those incarnations, i.e. you are never an entirely new individual from time to time. Same is for the first passage of the Manifestation which says something like "About/regarding the criterion (or distinction) of Being absolutely complete; the entitlement goes to the Being who learns to evolve" (b-esm al-la-heh al-raham-an al-raheem; al-hamid l-la-heh rabb al-aelam-een). Obviously it is hard to perfectly translate wildly different languages, Arabic uses a greatly different manner of conveying the language compared to for example English. It is interesting that for this wildly known language, I am the only person who knows it helpfully, because people live in an illusion of knowing it as incompetent individuals did attempt to study it a long time ago but brought forth something which is nothing less than just an invention, they did guess simply too much without having a clue. At the same time I feel it is important that I proceed with working on this. Yes we could say that it is like downloading and installing a computer program. When one downloads all the necessary information to the computer. This specific information for this specific future-program/application stored inside the computer has a real potential to start an installation processes and turn into a functioning/existing program/app. One could get all the information in the world about how to become better, become more of a Being and grow in Mind/Consciousness. But if one doesn't start the installation processes and continue the installation procces to fullfilment-100% completion, then the program technically doesnt exist on the computer and cannot be opened/interacted with. Therefore as you said having a mind-seed which has its "installation" process stuck lets say at 35% and it is like this for a very long-time and the mind-seed shows berely no progression then it might become vain to put hopes on this specific mind-seed. However, if one even progress his/her own installations process by 1% per one year, then the existence of the mind-seed is still not in vain because there is even if a slow but still a relatively steady progression of the "installation" progress. And isnt it true that even if a installation-process for a program is at 99.99%, one cannot open and interact with the program until it reaches full completion 100%? Therefore no matter how far the installation-process has come it needs to be fully installed in order for the program to star existing on the computer as a working/existing program. Therefore it must also be a vain practice to feel superior to others because one feels/thinks that his/hers "installation/progress" process is much higher, but even if it is at 99.99% one is still not complete and one is still as cold as it might sound - one is still not an existing program, but is a potential-program which is in a installation process just like all others programs. As you said about the the different criteria, it most probably is just like that. Its an ongoing progressive process of completion of ourselves. And as long as we progress our existence is not in vain. And also as you wrote earlier too, we cannot make a haste judgment about someone else even if that someone else`s current actions and behavior might show a lack of mind-seed progress, one can never know fully if that someone might not make sudden and relatively quick progress in a relatively short period of time. His/hers installation progress might have been stuck at 15% for some time but then can make relatively fast progress to completion and even reach the completion before the ones who made pre-mature judgment on the person to be void of a future in progress. The most "badass" person most probably is not the one who can take down a 7 nation army or conquer the whole universe so to speak. But the utmost "badass" most probably is the person who could get rid of all of his/her own devils/defectivity and weaknesses.
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Post by Immanuel on Jan 29, 2020 18:12:20 GMT
Ah yes, the second chapter of the Manifestation speaks of dealing with defects in oneself and about improvement. The body exposes us to stimuli all days long and being able to resist is improvement. I am sure, as Elahem is actually controlling the autonomous behavior of the body, that they steer the body into ways which test you and your defects and expect improvement from your part rather than falling for the deception day after day.
We can all lack aspects expected from a Being individual by ELAHEM e.g. patience, abstention, control, the list can be made longer.
So it is worth keeping in mind your body is actually driven to whatever aim by Elahem themselves, it is not an independent organism at all.
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Post by Tommonen on Jan 31, 2020 14:16:46 GMT
What about other aspects of Elohim, such as deceit, indifference to suffering, consciously inflicting suffering upon another living being(s) and being observant of it without any help? Why assume that the creator(s) of our reality must-100% be nice-pleasant individuals?
And to what extent they give you the freedom to be whoever you want to be and to what extent they shape you into whatever they want you to be? Because you have no choice otherwise, because they have the alleged power to do whatever they like with you and therefore have the privilege to dictate to you who you should be otherwise they can blackmail you by "death" of you as an existing entity.
And what I write here would it upset/anger them, because they are most probably aware of what am I thinking, let alone what am I writing. Or would they see it as a living being trying to think independently for himself and not parrot things as truth, because it feels good for it to be true?
If let's say theoretically if you would join their circle and thus you'll most probably become conscious of everything that is happening on earth, all the sufferings and negativity, would your Being/heart handle it? Can you stand when you see someone is suffering in your conscious vicinity? Or you 100% unaffected by it, so that you could just sit closely and mind your own business, eat a sandwich/read a book like its doesn't bother you at all? Because if you cant stand being conscious of the fact that even one is person suffering in your observable vicinity, then could you handle it if you to join Elohim and become conscious of all the negativity and suffering happening on the entire earth and all the peoples in it?
Even if they have very.very good reasons for having earth the way it is, and your minds would accept it then, but it wouldn't change the fact that your being/heart would need to be fully conscious of all the negativity and suffering on earth and observe 24/7. Doesn't it make sense that the only way to stay sane would be either stop being conscious of the earth and its happening or to cease to have any empathy/compassion for living beings, such as on earth. That's what am I saying when I say that ultimately it seems like we as individuals don't have a lot of choices. It is like negative character arc, when one becomes more of a villain, no?
Of course, because I'm trying to stay as open-minded as I can, I'm open to arguments which will shed to light to all of these exact-arguments/reasoning that I presented, and might change the way they make Elohim appear like.
I've seen even animals which when they see that another animal (even of other species) is in distress, they try to help it.
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Post by hftwo on Feb 8, 2020 18:41:57 GMT
If let's say theoretically if you would join their circle and thus you'll most probably become conscious of everything that is happening on earth, all the sufferings and negativity, would your Being/heart handle it? Can you stand when you see someone is suffering in your conscious vicinity? Or you 100% unaffected by it, so that you could just sit closely and mind your own business, eat a sandwich/read a book like its doesn't bother you at all? Because if you cant stand being conscious of the fact that even one is person suffering in your observable vicinity, then could you handle it if you to join Elohim and become conscious of all the negativity and suffering happening on the entire earth and all the peoples in it? Even if they have very.very good reasons for having earth the way it is, and your minds would accept it then, but it wouldn't change the fact that your being/heart would need to be fully conscious of all the negativity and suffering on earth and observe 24/7. Doesn't it make sense that the only way to stay sane would be either stop being conscious of the earth and its happening or to cease to have any empathy/compassion for living beings, such as on earth. That's what am I saying when I say that ultimately it seems like we as individuals don't have a lot of choices. It is like negative character arc, when one becomes more of a villain, no? Of course, because I'm trying to stay as open-minded as I can, I'm open to arguments which will shed to light to all of these exact-arguments/reasoning that I presented, and might change the way they make Elohim appear like. I've seen even animals which when they see that another animal (even of other species) is in distress, they try to help it. An insightful question. Even though the question is directed to Immanuel, I think any thinking person should consider this information and try to analyse it for himself/herself. e
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Post by Immanuel on Feb 9, 2020 9:56:07 GMT
What about other aspects of Elohim, such as deceit, indifference to suffering, consciously inflicting suffering upon another living being(s) and being observant of it without any help? Why assume that the creator(s) of our reality must-100% be nice-pleasant individuals? And to what extent they give you the freedom to be whoever you want to be and to what extent they shape you into whatever they want you to be? Because you have no choice otherwise, because they have the alleged power to do whatever they like with you and therefore have the privilege to dictate to you who you should be otherwise they can blackmail you by "death" of you as an existing entity. And what I write here would it upset/anger them, because they are most probably aware of what am I thinking, let alone what am I writing. Or would they see it as a living being trying to think independently for himself and not parrot things as truth, because it feels good for it to be true? If let's say theoretically if you would join their circle and thus you'll most probably become conscious of everything that is happening on earth, all the sufferings and negativity, would your Being/heart handle it? Can you stand when you see someone is suffering in your conscious vicinity? Or you 100% unaffected by it, so that you could just sit closely and mind your own business, eat a sandwich/read a book like its doesn't bother you at all? Because if you cant stand being conscious of the fact that even one is person suffering in your observable vicinity, then could you handle it if you to join Elohim and become conscious of all the negativity and suffering happening on the entire earth and all the peoples in it? Even if they have very.very good reasons for having earth the way it is, and your minds would accept it then, but it wouldn't change the fact that your being/heart would need to be fully conscious of all the negativity and suffering on earth and observe 24/7. Doesn't it make sense that the only way to stay sane would be either stop being conscious of the earth and its happening or to cease to have any empathy/compassion for living beings, such as on earth. That's what am I saying when I say that ultimately it seems like we as individuals don't have a lot of choices. It is like negative character arc, when one becomes more of a villain, no? Of course, because I'm trying to stay as open-minded as I can, I'm open to arguments which will shed to light to all of these exact-arguments/reasoning that I presented, and might change the way they make Elohim appear like. I've seen even animals which when they see that another animal (even of other species) is in distress, they try to help it. I have not said Elahem are "nice" by human standards. Any rational conclusion tells they are very rough, but compare it to old-time fathers who use very strict discipline with their children. Modern human goes away from it, but perhaps it is a good way which they abandon. Obviously you need to mix wisdom, equity and good behavior into the rearing methods. In order to master yourself you must have strict discipline with yourself and teaching yourself that it comes natural to teach your children the same. If you would have as much insight as Elahem you would think differently from what you think now. Part of your apparent frustration is because you do not understand and is actually negative as a consequence. Remember that the world is designed to break down its subjects so if you let this break you down that means you fail. You mentioned animals, good, it is a good example as you pointed out that "even animals" would help another animal in distress. That means the urge to assist is instinctive. Now let me be very cold. What if your willingness to help a person in distress was merely instinctive and not necessarily "right"? I am not saying you cannot help another, but much of what you do in life is instinctively motivated. In the realm of Elahem the terms right and wrong are very different from how your typical human perceives them. Now refer to what I have written about balance. What if you cannot be neither good nor bad a person. My point is that your instinctive pity for people in this world is causing you to imbalance your mind and to think along these tracks and it seems you have doubts because of it. Yes, the world is like hell and ironically this is what is Jehennom (Gehenna), but what if it is like this to test your mind and soul? Now rethink everything and get to understand that everything which ties you to your instincts is bad for your personal integrity, including letting instinctive pity ruin your thinking patterns. This does not mean you should become unhelpful, but it should not affect you as much. You need to somehow come to peace with how the world is because it will not change. You, like other people I have met, have doubts about if they even want to trust Elahem. For one, I can tell that you do not have much of a choice, you have to come to terms with reality, secondly I can tell you have prejudices about Elahem based on what you do not know. This is a fear of the unknown and that too is a typical instinctive reaction. You must put the world aside and let it play its way, you can say it is scripted to happen in a specified manner. You should not take part in what happens in it, not let yourself be rallied to whatever cause is happening in it. Most prophets for example never involved themselves much with the societies they acted within, and this is exactly the right way too. Most importantly you must deal with yourself, the world seeks to not let yourself do that, even your very own body does ruin your future. When you have helped yourself you can perhaps help other people, and then you must know that you can never force people to change, this is what has led to conflict and arising religions. It is not your responsibility to guide anyone, not even mine, but we can help people as an act of kindness if they want to listen.
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Post by Tommonen on Feb 15, 2020 10:45:12 GMT
I have tried to debunk my own hypothesis on many occasions now, but with each effort to do so I come even closer to confirming this horrible, and yet very real, possibility.
I have come to the conclusion that there is no salvation for us. It's the very nature of our existence which just doesn't allow for any forms of salvation. We are being literally farmed like cattle, and we don't even realize it.
I have been approached before by various people with the argument that the existence of goodness, love and affection within our lives have to be enough evidence to exclude the possibility that our creator-entities (god) are malevolent and evil. I will tell you exactly what I've told all of those people: This world is a huge selfsustainable soul-farm and we are a part of the livestock. We were bioengineered to feel love and affection because love and affection are needed in order for us to successfully raise our offspring. If we would be uncaring, insensitive and loveless, we wouldn't show any goodness at all, we wouldn't even be able to raise a single new generation... and that goodness is crucial for the continuous reproduction of all species, including humans.
So, the goodness that we see within humanity is, first of all, not an exclusive human trade...goodness can be observed within all species, and second of all, goodness is not a proof for divine benevolence, but it is only an aspect of the bioengineering of all species, and its purpose is to ensure the successful multiplying of all species.
Love, affection and goodness are unfortunately aspects which are being wrongfully considered to be evidences of divine benevolence...while people are completely overlooking the facts that are obviously showing the evilness of our creator-entities (god)....some of these facts are: the countless terminally children which are prematurely dying every single day all over the world; the undeniable absence of divine intervention regarding matters of life-and-death situations (wars, conflicts); the lack of information that we have regarding the matter of our existence is also a major clue to the fact that our existence is literally that of cattle; etc. etc.
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Post by Tommonen on Feb 15, 2020 10:52:50 GMT
There is a saying: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This is a wise saying, and it's true...now, try to imagine the cold-bloodedness, the indifference, and the apathy of our creator-entities, with all the powers that they have!?
If anythig the condition of earth and humans might not be a contradiction to the creators but a reflection of them and their own world.
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Post by hftwo on Feb 15, 2020 10:55:53 GMT
Tommonen, if this was the creators' goal, then why did they bother to create the entire planet and not just make this place something more that resembles a cattle farm? Don't you have too much freedom and opportunities for "cattle" in a farm?
Also if we are souls and we can sustain our souls existence for years and years wihtout consuming any other souls. Then why would other soul/spiritual entities would need to consume our souls to exist?
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Post by Immanuel on Feb 15, 2020 21:36:18 GMT
There is a saying: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." This is a wise saying, and it's true...now, try to imagine the cold-bloodedness, the indifference, and the apathy of our creator-entities, with all the powers that they have!? If anythig the condition of earth and humans might not be a contradiction to the creators but a reflection of them and their own world. Power (domination) corrupts because of bringing forth the inner instinct. If it was not for your body you would not have it. If you can separate the spirit from the body, it is fully possible to evade any corruption due to power. If the ones behind this world were blinded by power it would mean they have bodies that cause them to be corrupted, but this is not so. The world is innately evil by human terms, but this is so for a reason and not because Elahem (them being ones) wield their powers in a corrupted state. I have tried to explain it to you, but it seems you either ignore it or miss the point. I cannot myself look behind the scenes and the mechanics of the world. Personally I would deduct that much of what you see is an illusion and it is so to test your mind. It may even be so extreme that much of what you think happens actually is just like a cinematic scene, life could be compared to a dream. With your apocalyptic view you could be one of those who buy their trickery and lose faith and just wander around aimlessly. I would recommend that you focus on what is important in life, your mind and stop being torn apart due to beliefs about Elahem being mere reapers.
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Post by Immanuel on Feb 15, 2020 21:46:15 GMT
Apart from that, hftwo answered the soul farm question pretty well already. There is literally no reason to create an extensive world with so many details if the sole purpose was to harvest souls.
Our souls can grow and we do not consume anything in order to do so. Like hftwo said, why would Elahem require us to grow themselves?
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