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Post by Wanderer on Oct 6, 2017 20:27:04 GMT
Immanuel, you wrote earlier that you only deem the gospel as the most important/legitimate/proper part of the Bible.
And in the gospel, ther are verses describing the end times and the son of man will come on earth on clouds with angels at his side.
how do you interpreted this verse? Do one take them literal ?
Fx.
Luke 21:25-28
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
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Post by Immanuel on Oct 7, 2017 10:52:00 GMT
Immanuel, you wrote earlier that you only deem the gospel as the most important/legitimate/proper part of the Bible. The Gospel testimonies found in the Bible belong to those which are not in utter disarray, but that does not mean they are carrying problems with them, mostly due to to poor renditions. And in the gospel, ther are verses describing the end times and the son of man will come on earth on clouds with angels at his side. Those are without doubt translation issues. Eysua spoke (Syriac) Aramaic while the Gospels from the Bible have been translated from ancient Greek and already into Greek there are many problems. Like me, you probably have issues believing in a scenario where "the son of man" comes to the Earth on clouds with angels. First of all we can ask ourselves what exactly is a "son of man"? When I read the part of Luke you referred to then it came to my mind that Eysua is speaking of the prophecies of Yesaya/Isaiah, however Eysua is still speaking about the future basically repeating whatever Yesaya/Isiah had been saying in the past, so Eysua is not referring to himself but of those who shall come after him. Basically Eysua is actually disclosing a prophesied event which is coming up right now as we speak and I will delve into the topic now by comparing the section of the book of Yesaya/Isiah with the part of Luke which you referred to. Let me put the rendition of Luke here below in a table and then relate to essential segments of Isaiah to show what Eysua is speaking about. 6"All that you see here--the days will come when there will not be left a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down." | Row 1 column 2 | 7 Then they asked him, "Teacher, when will this happen? And what sign will there be when all these things are about to happen?" | Row 2 column 2 | 8He answered, "See that you not be deceived, for many will come in my name, saying, 'I am he,' and 'The time has come.' Do not follow them! | Row 3 column 2 | 9When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for such things must happen first, but it will not immediately be the end." | 23On that day every place where there used to be a thousand vines, worth a
thousand pieces of silver, shall be turned to briers and thorns.
24Men shall go there with bow and arrows; for all the country shall be briers and
thorns. | 10Then he said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. | 18On that day The LORD shall whistle for the fly that is in the farthest streams of
Egypt, and for the bee in the land of Assyria.
19All of them shall come and settle in the steep ravines and in the rocky clefts, on all
thornbushes and in all pastures. | 11There will be powerful earthquakes, famines, and plagues from place to place; and awesome sights and mighty signs will come from the sky. | 17The LORD shall bring upon you and your people and your father's house days
worse than any since Ephraim seceded from Judah. (This means the king of
Assyria.) | 12"Before all this happens, however, they will seize and persecute you, they will hand you over to the synagogues and to prisons, and they will have you led before kings and governors because of my name. | Row 7 column 2 | 13It will lead to your giving testimony. | Row 8 column 2 | 14Remember, you are not to prepare your defense beforehand, | 12Call not alliance what this people calls alliance, and fear not, nor stand in awe of
what they fear. 9Know, O peoples, and be appalled! Give ear, all you distant lands! Arm, but be
crushed! Arm, but be crushed! | 15for I myself shall give you a wisdom in speaking that all your adversaries will be powerless to resist or refute. | Row 10 column 2 | 16You will even be handed over by parents, brothers, relatives, and friends, and they will put some of you to death. | Row 11 column 2 | 17You will be hated by all because of my name, | Row 12 column 2 | 18but not a hair on your head will be destroyed. | Row 13 column 2 | 19By your perseverance you will secure your lives. | 16The record is to be folded and the sealed instruction kept among my disciples.
17For I will trust in the LORD, who is hiding his face from the house of Jacob; yes, I
will wait for him. | 20"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is at hand. | Row 15 column 2 | 21Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Let those within the city escape from it, and let those in the countryside not enter the city, | 25For fear of briers and thorns you shall not go upon any mountainside which used to
be hoed with the mattock; they shall be grazing land for cattle and shall be trampled
upon by sheep. | 22for these days are the time of punishment when all the scriptures are fulfilled. | 20then this document will furnish its instruction. That kind of thing they will surely say. | 23Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for a terrible calamity will come upon the earth and a wrathful judgment upon this people. | - | 24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken as captives to all the Gentiles; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. | 14Yet he shall be a snare, an obstacle and a stumbling stone to both the houses of
Israel, A trap and a snare to those who dwell in Jerusalem;
15And many among them shall stumble and fall, broken, snared, and captured.
| 25"There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves. | 6Because this people has rejected the waters of Shiloah that flow gently, And melts
with fear before the loftiness of Rezin and Remaliah's son,
7Therefore the LORD raises against them the waters of the River, great and mighty
(the king of Assyria and all his power). It shall rise above all its channels, and
overflow all its banks;
| 26People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. | 8It shall pass into Judah, and flood it all throughout: up to the neck it shall reach; It
shall spread its wings the full width of your land, Immanuel! | 27And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. | Row 22 column 2 | 28But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand." | 11For thus said the LORD to me, taking hold of me and warning me not to walk in the
way of this people: | 29He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees. | Row 24 column 2 | 30When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near;
| Row 25 column 2
| 31in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. | Row 23 column 2 | 32Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. | Row 24 column 2 | 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
| Row 25 column 2
| 34"Beware that your hearts do not become drowsy from carousing and drunkenness and the anxieties of daily life, and that day catch you by surprise | Row 23 column 2 | 35like a trap. For that day will assault everyone who lives on the face of the earth. | Row 24 column 2 | 36Be vigilant at all times and pray that you have the strength to escape the tribulations that are imminent and to stand before the Son of Man."
| Row 25 column 2
| 28But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand." | Row 23 column 2 |
I agree it is not entirely possible to coherently compare two writings next to each other, but I hope you see the pattern between the two prophecies and that they speak of the same things/events. Now that we compared them, let us go back to Luke and the phenomenon called "son of man". What is a "son of man"? The phrase "son of man" occurs frequently throughout the Bible if we look at the greater picture and it apparently does not seem to "only" refer to Eysua. In a version of the Bible called King James (older) the phrase "son of man" occurs more frequently in translation than in more modern ones, as if the ones rendering the translation wish to make it more associated with Eysua as if part of an agenda. Anyways, after researching a little I read up on it and the Hebrew phrase "Ben Adam" is the phrase translated as "son of man" while in Aramaic it is allegedly "Bar Adam". If I do a quick reference to Arabic etymology I can refer to this root for the Aramaic: Ba-Ra-Alif = became/was clear/free of a thing, to quit it, become irresponsible for it, guiltless of it, remove oneself from a thing, kept far or aloof (e.g. from unclean things), state of freedom/immunity/security/safety. Convalescent/sound/healthy, cure/heal, recover/restore. Create/produce, former/fashioner. He compounded or made a compromise with him for their mutual separation. Mankind/creation/beings/things that are created.
"My" 'Innate Letter Meanings' would render the word "With Foundation Be". And they would render the Ben word "With Integrity", so Ben Adam means "With Integrity Adam". Now I do not have the Aramaic version of the Biblical Gospels, so it is hard to definitely know for sure what it is supposed to say, but much can be figured out through an intelligent hypothesis and we have Quran which I am working on to set it straight. Let us take a look at the "son of man" phrase of Luke: 27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Hypothesize if the passage looked like this: 27 And then they will see a Son of Man coming in a cover of power and great glory. Eysua does speak of a future prophecy, of the coming of a person which will set things straight and he is as I highlighted above referring to the prophecy of Yesaya. Eysua is called Eysua and not Emanuel/Immanuel, and so Eysua is not Emanuel/Immanuel and therefore Emanuel/Immanuel has to be someone else of whom both Eysua and Yesaya foretold. This is a brief description of who Emanuel/Immanuel is: 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. 15 He shall be living on curds and honey by the time he learns to reject the bad and
choose the good. Is that Eysua to you? Did Eysua have a life of milk and honey (metaphorical for a spoiled life) and then amidst all the milk and honey he realizes and starts to learn to reject the bad and choose the goodly. No, it is not Eysua the ancient text refers to. And "the virgin shall be with child", every woman who bears her first child is a virgin, the term virgin means she is giving birth to her first-born child. I am the one of which the prophecy tells of, I am a son of man coming in a cover of power and great glory, and like the Emanuel/Immanuel Isaiah told of I have lived ignorantly in a life of milk and honey and I have had to learn right from wrong and beyond all that I have a veil of power and glory surrounding me, I must only fulfill the part of the prophecy of shaking all the primitive, worldly living off me and take my place. It is like a man who rises from the mud and having to wash clean first, and so the dirt seems to be difficult to wash away. Let us look at more passages involving "son of man". 19 A scribe approached and said to him, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go." 20 Jesus answered him, "Foxes have dens and birds of the sky have nests, but theSon of Man has nowhere to rest his head." It is a parable, that is for certain, but what does Eysua mean? Yes, it means the animals Eysua speaks of have their place in this Earth, but man does not. 21 Another of (his) disciples said to him, "Lord, let me go first and bury my father." 22 But Jesus answered him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead." Quite bluntly sarcastic indeed, but he was accurate. Both this and the above statement speak of basically the same thing, of being involved in meaningless things of this world. 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" -- he then said to the paralytic, "Rise, pick up your stretcher, and go home." 22 You will be hated by all because of my name, but whoever endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the a Son of Man comes. [I.e. someone else he is speaking of since it is speaking of the future] 24 No disciple is above his teacher, no slave above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, for the slave that he become like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more those of his household! 26 "Therefore do not be afraid of them. Nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. [Compare Isaiah: 16 The record is to be folded and the sealed instruction kept among my disciples.] 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they said, 'He is possessed by a demon.' 19 The This Son of Man came eating and drinking and they said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is vindicated by her works." 7 If you knew what this meant, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned these innocent men. 8 For the a Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath." 32 And whoever speaks a word against the a Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. [Comment: I.e. who speaks having an opinion about being a "son of man", but who speaks and tries to prevent the Holy Spirit will meet quite some resistance] 31 Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. [See how it continues the previous verse and speaks of people thus, i.e. "son of man" is in reference to people in general] 39 He said to them in reply, "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. 40 Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, so will the a Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. 41 At the judgment, the men of Nineveh will arise with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and there is something greater than Jonah here. [It is a parable, it is uncertain what he meant, but if one can solve what he intended to say it is probably saying a great deal] 37 He said in reply, "He who sows good seed is the a Son of Man, 38 the field is the world, the good seed (is) the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil darkness one, 39 and the enemy who (which) sows them is the devil instinct. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The A Son of Man will send bring (to) his angels angelhood, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. 13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, " Who do people say that this the Son of Man is?" 14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter said in reply, " You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." 17Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. [I.e. he is not saying "son of man", as for the "son of man" foretold, this person had not come until much later] 27 For the a Son of Man will come with his angels angelhood in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct. 28 Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death (or end) until they see the a Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, "Do not tell the vision to anyone until the a Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
10 Then the disciples asked him, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"
11 He said in reply, "Elijah will indeed come and restore all things;
12 but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the this Son of Man suffer at their hands."
13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.
22 As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The This Son of Man is to be handed over to men,
23 and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were overwhelmed with grief.
27 Then Peter said to him in reply, "We have given up everything and followed you. What will there be for us?"
28 Jesus said to them, "Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the this Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life.
30 But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.
18"Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the this Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death,
28 Just so, the this Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life
as a ransom for many."
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 "When you see the desolating abomination spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
16 then those in Judea must flee to the mountains,
17 a person on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house,
18 a person in the field must not return to get his cloak.
19 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days.
20 Pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath,
21 for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be.
22 And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened.
23 If anyone says to you then, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.
25 Behold, I have told it to you beforehand.
26 So if they say to you, 'He is in the desert,' do not go out there; if they say, 'He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
27 For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the this Son of Man be.
28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the this Son of Man will appear in heaven out of the origin, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the this Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven through a veil of the origin/highly of with power and great glory.
31 And he will send out his angels angelhood with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
37 For as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the this Son of Man.
38 In (those) days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day that Noah entered the ark.
39 They did not know until the flood came and carried them all away. So will it be (also) at the coming of the this Son of Man. [Compare to the prophecy of Yesaya/Isaiah]
44 So too, you also must be prepared, for at an hour you do not expect, the this Son of Man will come. [Eysua is indeed speaking about the future and this rhymes very well with the prophecy of Yesaya and speaking of Immanuel/Emanuel]
45 "Who, then, is the faithful and prudent servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household to distribute to them their food at the proper time?
46 Blessed is that servant whom his master on his arrival finds doing so.
47 Amen, I say to you, he will put him in charge of all his property.
48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is long delayed,'
49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eat and drink with drunkards,
50 the servant's master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour
51 and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.
31 "When the this Son of Man comes in(to) his glory, and all the angels angelhood with him, he will sit
upon his glorious throne,
32 and all the nations will be assembled shown before him. And he will separate them one
from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the king leader will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my
Father/Origin. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37 Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40 And the king leader will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
2"You know that in two days' time it will be Passover, and the this Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified."
24 The This Son of Man indeed goes (away), as it is written of/about him, but woe to that man by whom the this Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born."
45 Then he returned to his disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and
taking your rest? Behold, the hour is at hand when the this Son of Man is to be handed
over to sinners.
63 But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, "I order you to tell us under oath before the living God whether you are the Messiah, the Son of God."
64 Jesus said to him in reply, "You have said so. But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the this Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming (up)on the clouds of heaven veils/shrouds of the origin/highly.'"
65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need have we of witnesses? You have now heard the blasphemy;
Now that we are done with the Gospels, let us look at how "son of man" is used in the Old Testament.
Numbers {23:19} God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the [Or this] son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it?] or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Job {35:7} If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand? {35:8} Thy wickedness [may hurt] a man as thou [art;] and thy righteousness [may profit] the this son of man.
Psalms {8:4} What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psalms {146:3} Put not your trust in princes, [nor] in the son of man in whom [there is] no help
Jeremiah {49:18} As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and
the neighbour [cities] thereof, saith the LORD, no man shall
abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it.
{1:28} As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so [was] the appearance of the brightness round about. This [was] the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw [it,] I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
{2:1} And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. {2:2} And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.
So, what is a "son of man"? Clearly not one particular person is alone "son of man" but it is a definition of a particular type of human (Adam) and as it seems the person has become mentally superior. As said above, Ben Adam is "son of man" in translation of Hebrew and if we take a look at the root which is "ibn" it is "Is With Integrity", i.e. the person is acting like an Adam, the Ben Adam means the same thing, i.e. "With Integrity - Adam".
Summary is, anyone can be a "son of man" and it is a condition which is better than an ordinary human on Earth, it only takes being conceived with their innate seed in themselves and so they grow into Being. Only a "son of man" has a chance of becoming an angel because it is the only one which grows beyond being like cattle.
Be well Qarael Amenuel
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