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Post by Connor on Nov 18, 2019 12:44:02 GMT
Hello Immanuel, I was contemplating on your reasoning. And I have something to say, if you would like an constructive criticism.
You say that the existence of "hell" doesn't make sense and what would "God/Higher Consciousness Entity" get from it other than emotional satisfaction - which you do ascribe to a higher-consciousness-entity/God.
And by reasoning because it doesn't make sense because it just gives emotional satisfaction.
Well, let's judge the tree by its fruits shall we? Look at the earth and tell why there are so many unnecessary pain/suffering/distress inducing elements?
All kinds of disorders, all kinds of dangerous animals? All kinds of plagues? And when You were asked that is it true that the Creators/Elohim gave a "guidence" but let it be corrupted for over thousand years, you answered "Well maybe the Elohim have a sense of humor"
Excuse me but what kind of sadistic humor is that?? What kind of individuals make up Elohim? How many people suffered in endless conflicts because of these abrahamic religions because as You say was let to be corrupted by Elohim themselves, thus you had all these holy/religious wars/conflicts.
These things are unnecessary pain/suffering inducing elements but yet they do exist on earth, by who's authority/creator. Yes the ones who have control over this reality.
They do make these unnecessary diseases to be part of this reality, which makes no sense to make a part of this reality other than to make people suffer who are here.
Then why don't you see that there being a hell as a possibility? Because as you say yourself all these painful elements of this earth make no sense other than that they are put here to inflict pain to us. Same words you say about hell, but same stuff is here on earth.
Yes these guys have total control over us and our reality. But this doesn't mean that they are nice individuals, att all.
If anything they could be sadistic individuals who like to inflict suffering/distress upon others.
If anything people usually see spirtual/truth as finding this perfectly nice secret behind reality. But there is also a very big possibility that the reason behind our existence is sadistic and thr intrjons of the Creators are not in our favour.
Just like when we slaughter and eat domestic animals, because we need their flesh and consider them to be lower creatures then us so we have no moral dilemma in killing them.
What if it is the same for our Creators? We are to them no better like the domestic animals are to us. And they have us to exist only for their own benefit, and this "benefit" for them can mean total hell/terror for us, just the animals being slaughtered in the end of their lives.
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 18, 2019 23:38:34 GMT
Hello,
There is hell and there is where we are. The difference is what hell really is than if it exists or not.
What I have said concerning eternal hell in the same state over and over again forever has no meaning beyond lowly revengeful anger over something and that is the traditional definition of hell, that it is an eternal punishment because we disobey the "authority from above". That does not make sense for any intelligent being who does not have instincts, there is no point of torturing something forever, that is primitive satisfaction and requires an instinctive drive to motivate.
There are various riddle-based hints to the truth in the words, which have been left as a word game, believe it or not.
For example "hell" comes from "hel" and that means "whole" in English from German and it defines the meaning of it. The traditional etymology is incorrect. The purpose of hell is in the very word. This place we are in is a purgatory in which you are meant to get purified, or vanish.
The Semitic equivalent is Jehennom, it is based on the word Jenn which means "body" and which by its grammatical form and lexical meaning reads something like "the bodily attachment". Jehennom is a phase of being forcefully bonded with the body regardless if the subject wants it or not. You cannot think away the body, unfortunately, no matter how much you want it, not even by committing suicide. In this way it is eternal, besides that there is a way to escape, however the hole is small and it must be entered first. Like Jesus said: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God". People of all ages have wondered what the parable meant, and the answer is pretty easy.
The camel is pretty tall and big, but the rich man is so full of this world that it is still easier for the camel to go through the eye of a needle, and the real marvel about the parable is that "eye of a needle" is a metaphor for the passage into what is called Heaven. Obviously a camel cannot fit the eye of a needle no matter what you do, but it is even less likely that the rich man will enter which in reality means it is absolutely impossible. The hidden hint in the parable is that what you are looking for by means of escape is not more significantly apparent than an eye of a needle, that is your gate and then consider you are a full-grown human and you must enter that really small needle eye. Then grasp what kind of challenge is ahead of you!
It is all metaphorical of course, but let go of thinking in physical terms for anything other than the metaphor.
As for the domestic animals, the more conscious you become the harder it is to eat them, one may need to not think of what is eaten eventually or it is impossible to eat. Feeling like an animal is grotesque. You eat them because you are an animal eating another animal.
You do have a really dark, apocalyptic view and while reality looks grim it does by no means help by just thinking "it is hopeless!" because you need to do what is most logical in any situation. Most logical is believing in the best possible scenario and hoping it is right. The right to exist should be your main concern, not fear of whatever is the truth, that is like fearing the unknown and it is an instinct. If you have fear then you succumb to what impairs the human mind from progress because of that damned body.
If Elahem is opposed to you then you must work harder to grow consciously and not let yourself be misguided by their attempts to keep you assimilated with the body in which you reside. Be strong, be in control and refuse to let the body command you but be in command of the body. Standing above the body is standing above Elahem, it is they who control the instinct of it and can you resist their aggressive actions to control your mind then you show independence and mental existence. Seek to not let the body control you in any way.
As Jesus gave hints so shall I, and Jesus said be not angry with your brother/sister and I say be not annoyed by your brother/sister, even. It takes so little to stir up emotions inside.
You can see the whole chain now: Moses said "Do not dominate (kill)", Jesus said "be not angry with your brother" and I said "be not annoyed".
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Post by Connor on Nov 19, 2019 1:31:50 GMT
Immanuel, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the instinct "forces" you to exist on asleep/unconscious/dormant level/state as an independently-existing-mind. And I also agree that all these instinctive/biological programs that make-up a human-being, one needs to get rid of completely, because our minds aren't homo-sapiens. And only this way do we have a chance of finding out who we really are amongst this misleading pile of flesh. I HAVE to agree with all these teachings of yours because it is TRUE, and there is no going around these facts.
However, because I do not idolize anyone and therefore I have to say when I see that someone might be not sober in some of his reasoning.
Immanuel, you said "The right to exist should be your main concern, not fear of whatever is the truth, that is like fearing the unknown and it is an instinct. If you have fear then you succumb to what impairs the human mind from progress because of that damned body.". However, I do NOT FEAR what might be Truth. On the contrary, I seek the truth. Even if it means that it will be most-painful and not pleasent-at-all. I do not want emotions to hold me back from finding out the truth.
Immanuel, please do not take this as me trying to create some kind of a "battle of minds" of who is "more right" between you and me. If anything I might be much less-perfect as an individual compared to you for example. And if it's true I'll accept that, because that is the truth. However, I see that when you say this: "Believing in the best possible scenario and hoping it is right.", when I read this I cannot accept this because it is not true.
There are scenarios where one needs to think about a situation as in what is the worst-case scenario for one's own safety/well-being.
For example one is walking throughout the city and one kind-of notices that it looks as if a particular individual is always in one proximity/field-of-view.
Now, this one person could react to this two ways :
1.) Believing in the best possible scenario and hoping it is right: In this case, the person just thinks to himself/herself "Well, I guess this person just had the same route as me throughout the city, there is nothing to it" . However in reality the person is being stalked by an individual intentions are to find to stalk and find out where the person lives in order to do harm. This way the person naively just continues his/her usual route through out the city towards his/her home. Which results in the stalker finding out the person place of residence. And the situation ends with the stalker setting the person house on fire.
2.) Believing in the worst possible scenario and preparing/taking action even if one is not 100% convinced that the worst-case scenario is right: In this case the person starts to think what might be the "worst-case-scenario explanation for this one person seeming to be around through out ones journey through the city? One then starts to think about the possibility of being followed/stalked by this person. Then one starts to think the possibility that this potential-stalker might be trying to follow the person to find out where the person lives due to some bad intentions. Therefore the person quickly changes his/her usual route and goes to different public-transports in order to lose the stalker form his/her tail. And in this case the situation ends with the stalker being unsuccessful in his attempts of finding out the place of residence of the person.
This is just one example, all-though not perfect, I see that it is sufficient in telling what Im trying to show as an example. Knowing the reality we reside in and it being cunning/deceiving. It is on the contrary more-beneficial to think about the worst case scenario and being prepared as in the worst case scenario possible. When we as humans "hope-for-the-best" we are taking chances. And we cannot take chances, because our very-existence is at stake.
What Im trying to say that usually in spiritual-teaching(s), people recognize the facts of this world being harmful/evil/cunning. However they ascribe the world of "the gods/controllers/creators-of-our-realm", as being the opposite to our world, if our world is harsh, evil, ugly, cunning then their world is the opposite of ours. But what is this idea based upon? Because I see that it is based on "wishful-thinking" from the side of humanity in order to have something to hold-onto/hope for, because again humans rely on emotions to a great extent. Nobody wants truth which hurts, not the-average human at least.
Im saying is that the reason for our existence here in this reality might be not for benefit. These creators/controllers of this realm might be like you, or like me at all. Would you create/design such world as ours? Just answer this truthfully to yourself please.
And to make record straight just because I do not rely on positive emotions as a motivating factor for me to exist and try to reason/analyse reality without emotional-filters, It does not mean that Im in despair or see as things being hopeless.
I try to to be a stable individual who is in control of his own mind at first.
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Post by Connor on Nov 19, 2019 1:39:04 GMT
I wrote this part of the message/post un-intentionally wrong, here is the correctly-intended version: Im saying is that the reason for our existence here in this reality might not be for our benefit. These creators/controllers of this realm might be not like you, or like me at all. Would you create/design such world as ours? Just answer this truthfully to yourself please.
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 19, 2019 21:02:44 GMT
I was not wrong in the quote of what I wrote, it is just that you need to consider in what light I wrote it. Ok, I wrote "Believing in the best possible scenario and hoping it is right". What I meant was that I anticipated that you was hopelessly fearing that Elahem are breeding you like cattle to draw energy from you and therefore I answered that instead of fearing this, believing that "resistance is futile", it is better to believe you can overcome it rather than giving up already. But what you did was misinterpret my words and put words in my mouth so to say, claimed something I did never write. But it is okay, such things happen. The case was based on that in lack of knowledge of the true intentions of Elahem, there is doubt there is any reason to put up a resistance and this was my answer to you, and this is a most logical cause of action in an unknown scenario, it is better to continue have hope, and so believing here is best. You see I was not wrong from the start? Believing itself is not so good, but it is better than to lack faith. But on the other hand I may have given you unnecessary information you did not need in the previous post, I can see you do understand, and do not give up and feel hopeless. It is good if you read the post I sent to the Wanderer in iamthatiam.boards.net/thread/295/dream-put-perspective which deals with a bit of why the world might look the way it does. You cannot compare typical humans with Elahem since humans are biased by our animalistic nature, the reality is not based on that but this is an illusion, a charade, it is a trap itself to accept that as true. Elahem has created a chaotic world but it does not mean this is the nature of Elahem.
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Post by Connor on Nov 22, 2019 17:05:46 GMT
Immanuel, however, You still cannot give a proper explanation of why there had to be these unnecessary pain-inducing elements of this reality? Diseases, viruses, all kinds of other stuff. Why would they-creators who get no emotional pleasure from the suffering of others, why would they put these things into this reality? Think about it. Something doesn't add up.
And when you propose the idea that the people who might be suffering might not be real, that's dangerous territory because what then when it will touch you (i don't wish of course of this happening). What if I told you I suffer for the last part of my life due to a health issue that no doctor cant to anything about, and in one of my "spiritual" experience the beings told me that they are sorry but it was "an order" from their leader to do so towards me. And in the end, they just said "but hey, all suffering on earth is nothing because it is all an illusion anyway". What kind of answer is that? Even if it is 100% charade-world/illusion, I am real, we are real and what we experience is a real experience for us because it is the only experience we get to experience.
Wha is that they are very cold-hearted. Jesus talks about compassion for example, but do you see this same level compassion from the Elohim? Give a scripture and let it be corrupted for over a thousand years and as a consequence over a thousand years, people had a false idea which led to conflicts and suffering of even more individuals on earth.
It really doesn't add up, the compassion, the protection of one's brothers eye as ones own`. And yet look how Elohim created this world. I could understand the instincts vs mind part, makes sense at least. But why put all these unnecessary diseases?
I fully disagree that there is any other force than the evil one of our own creator(s). Evil entities can also create (for farming purposes). By the way, they are only evil from our point of view, they consider themselves just normal farmers and us their cattle. Technically they are correct. I my opinion there is no duality. It was made up by religions to create the illusion of choice. There is no free will either, when it comes to the most important aspects of life. We don´t want to AGE but we MUST. We don´t want to DIE but we MUST. Pure/total-Free will is an illusion, and so is duality. In fact if they are so advanced that they create and sustain a word such as ours, and they would like us to join their circle why would they? Look at us objectively? In the things that truly matter we don't have a say at all. And no matter how much people grow spiritually they still can't do jack-shit, even though they become full of sense of self-importance.
Because in the end the answer is always "it is someone else/gods that grant whatever they like." So if you get out from this place, it is up to them. What you can do and cant is up to them. What kind of powers and abilities you have is up to them. In the end is always up to them. If anything domination might not be just an aspect of our simulated reality and its background. Because look how they are forcing us, force us to get sick, force us to get old, force us to die whenever they see it fit, etc. Even if anyomne us becomes a part of Elohim, they will again for their own opinion over you due to them being stronger as collective.
Is there anyone out there, other than Elohim who has more empathy? Because as if the hypothesis that Elohim are developing future members of their community here, I see Elohim that Elohim makes sure that these members are exactly like them. You either think and do as Elohim wants or either Elohim just do whatever they like with you.
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Post by Connor on Nov 22, 2019 17:06:05 GMT
And let's be honest we would like to think that we can get better mentally and then maybe we will impress the Elohim and be attractive as a future potential member of the community. But how can it be so when we can't even fix the everyday-life mundane our personal problems we have as humans here? If people cant fix their everyday life problems, what kind of "being controllers of worlds" talks can we talk about? Let's be honest and evaluate ourselves accordingly.
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 23, 2019 23:55:29 GMT
Disagree with whom? Me?
I never told there is any other force than Elahem controlling the world.
That is usually true for every single human in practice, but in theory it is possible to break the chains while being alive in the flesh. The obstacle is that you must overpower the collective force of Elahem combined in order to "put them in place" so to say, the probability of doing so is minimal unless you really have a most impressive willpower, most likely no one is that good, to beat every single one of Elahem in their mental power projecting this illusion including your chains.
Summary of that is you should not think you can overcome them by pure mental power, it is better to demonstrate what you can do with your mind, a demonstration of wielding your power and make it interesting to integrate you into their community. That said, it is meaningless to go around thinking you are powerless to resist anything, it is better to believe you can move mountains like our friend Jesus said.
This takes that you know what Elahem want and not what you imagine they want. I happen to know what they want with you, they want you to nurture your mental power, to expand on your power of being, you must function as an independent being while also working with others. This is why the Homo sapiens inherently contradicts that by being individual/specific group-centered, and this instinct drives you to not function the way Elahem wishes you to do.
The answer why the world is so incredibly cruel is because it is meant to break you down and have a hard trouble to believe in anything good and make it easy to follow the instinct (propelled by Elahem). This is what the teachings say about the world. I am certain that the logical truth behind all that besides what is written about it and that is a lot. As you already wrote, Elahem are not concerned about what humans call evil.
Yes, while some people may be dummy-souls the reasoning does not hold up since we can also suffer who are consciously aware.
Jesus speaks about many things including compassion, what he truly speaks about is counteracting the instinct and not because he teaches the right opposite of what Elahem are. He teaches a remedy to the situation at hand, not to contradict what Elahem are or are not.
Deception is something we consider evil-intended, but that is exactly what this world is. Those who put us to the test want to make things hard for us, particularly mentally burdening. Ironically it is through the proper state of mind and action in the case of difficulty which gives the right environment to grow. The world is like the weights to a weightlifter and the mind is our muscles. You probably can see the irony in the saying "no pain no gain".
It requires a good mind to understand properly, even understanding the truth is most commendable as most humans are like sheep and just parrot the same thing and cannot change themselves from their tunnel-vision. Imitating and learning what to think/know is a most instinctive thing, to break those initial chains is impressive, I am impressed by anyone who understands just the same as I do, since I understood the truth about the deception behind our existence I have strived hard to make it possible for others to also open their eyes.
As I wish to convey, the world is rotten just to give that extra hard believe-factor in anything supernatural behind this world. If the image of gods is ridiculously grim either people believe the god is "cold-hearted" and so are the people to be or they cannot believe there exists any god due to it and they just roam around following whatever the instinct tells them to do, or they live in the belief the god is most mind as long as you are good and if they anyways suffer they believe they were not good enough, putting mental stress on themselves due to it and even doing insane things like burning witches (which people did not too many centuries ago). Humans often think they have to purify the world for the god by murdering people, "getting rid of evil", but both good and evil is Elahem at the same time and they just go into a trap of mindlessnes, of having a deluded mind (which is called kafer in Arabic).
It takes to outsmart the illusion of whatever is not true about the world and the god(s) or Elahem as we say. They make you and me suffer yes, and that is the intention so that we disbelieve or believe in the wrong things. You should practice using your mind and try to determine the path ahead of you rather than portraying yourself as a victim, even knowing Elahem can do whatever they like with you. If you erase that victimized feeling about yourself and show some self-esteem, try to join the Elahem and laugh at the pain, it will definitely go better. If you curse Elahem and feel somehow anger about what they do to you, this will not help you and they provoked in you to show what you must learn to control. Do you understand why they literally torture you now?
They put a heavy trial on you and your ability to be firm and in order, they put so heavy tests on you that if you are not strong you will lose faith and just let the world consume you, and this is why the world looks like it does in the first place.
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 24, 2019 0:27:14 GMT
And let's be honest we would like to think that we can get better mentally and then maybe we will impress the Elohim and be attractive as a future potential member of the community. But how can it be so when we can't even fix the everyday-life mundane our personal problems we have as humans here? If people cant fix their everyday life problems, what kind of "being controllers of worlds" talks can we talk about? Let's be honest and evaluate ourselves accordingly. It is not about any quantity but quality, do you think people will join Elahem in the masses? No. Do not think about "why people can't fix their everyday problems", you must think about yourself and not compare yourself to others. It is not your responsibility if broken souls ruin the world, there is little you can do about it and Elahem are driving the world currently into more chaos than ever, it is already staged to be like it in the prophecies of Isaiah, you cannot fight the will of Elahem and the weak-minded will follow that will to the letter. At best you can summon the goodly of people who have a soul of any admirable caliber, good enough to understand that reacting emotionally upon the mayhem is just meant to do so. Humanity at whole is doomed, for not taking the proper course of action which is control over the mind and people cannot be cursed either, they just are incapable of being better. You must go against the trend and not follow in the footsteps of others, this is exactly the solution to your own problems. In the perspective of humans, you should say that "you should not be human" (Homo sapiens), try to be better than that. It sounds a bit megalomaniac, and weird, but you should aim to be god-like, because that is what you were made for, to be in the image of God that you were made of (taken from Genesis, Torah, among the only phrases that are decently accurate from the original language). If you see and perceive Jesus to have been God-like, people even worshiped him as such as God, so should you be that you may become the "child of God" that you are. "Everyone who does like me will be children of God" as the Gospels testaments say with a slightly poor translation. As for Jesus, he only had one biological parent and that was Miryem (Mary), this was the miracle about him. He did not have a biological father at all. Elahem just made it so, determined there to be a fetus in the uterus of Miryem. Father as a term for God or Elahem was conceived based on a lack of linguistic skill when deciphering old texts in a to them archaic language, by Semitic term anyone (okay, mostly a male individual) can be called by the word father as well as it has a more broad meaning, for example Abraham was called father Abraham without being the biological father, but some later people used that as if the texts spoke of the offspring of Abraham and entitled themselves to both this and that.
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Post by Connor on Nov 24, 2019 16:19:48 GMT
Immanuel, there are many interesting/thought-provoking things you wrote in your reply, points/info/arguments to which I can ask further questions or give my own comments on, but I need to ask this question first:
When You say that Jesus thought also about compassion it was in order to counteract the instinct and not because he teaches the right opposite of what Elahem are. You also say that that it was more of a remedy to the situation at hand, not to contradict what Elahem are or are not.
Ok, So he taught compassion because it is against the pre-programmed instinct in humans which is lack-of compassion, especially towards those humans see as the "others"? Ok. Does that mean that if for example, we existed in a simulated-world/reality as another animal species which would have had instincts/pre-programmed-behavior which was the total opposite to of that of the homo-sapien, would we then in order to go against the instincts of this hypothetical animal species, would do the opposite, by being aggressive/dominant, jealous, deceitful, etc?
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 25, 2019 19:29:59 GMT
Hello,
I may add to the discussion about compassion that there is "instinctive compassion" too but that is quite selective and not always that inclusive, also animals sometimes seem to have that.
If you study what Jesus said you can clearly see that he says that you should aim to be compassionate also when it is normally hard for Homo sapiens to be so, i.e. the instinct calls to not be compassionate, for example when you get upset about what someone does or has done to you or anyone else. What I meant is that it is not really about being compassionate per se but rather avoiding stereotypical behavioral patterns, those propelled by the human bodily instinct.
That is the substance of the Jesu teaching, but that has been mixed up with that Elahem is all merciful, forgiving and accepting because it is how Jesus appears to be, but truth is Elahem do not accept failed subjects, those are uninteresting. If you study the texts objectively about Jesus you can see he is pretty blunt and honestly says things like "you of little understanding!" (original translation is of little faith, but it is a common mistranslation of the word amen). And to Peter he exclaimed that he should get rid of Satan in him when they were to cry emotionally because he was to die, and out of a human perspective this would not be compassionate of him. Like I wrote, the underlying message is not the compassion itself but about the remedy to solve the problems with yourself, it is Christianity which has had its take on the texts for centuries and imprinted its dogma over time. Jesus was according to me a pretty bitter person with a pretty apocalyptic belief about people in general, I see him in the texts as fairly frustrated with people around him, tired of them, yet he felt inclined to help them as part of the prophecies. I feel for him, I sadly see myself in an identical situation now.
You have the remedy by the so-called 'Ten Commandments', which are more like the Ten Guidelines that say:
1. Be devoted to being/becoming (a unique) one of the Being Ones (Elahem) 2. Take not a stereotype/model/image of anything/anyone and be devoted to it 3. Use not the command of Being for vanity 4. Keep contemplating
5. Consider your neighbor like yourself (Jesus added: also consider your enemy like yourself); 6. , Do not dominate (him/her) 7. , Do not exploit (him/her) 8. , Do not steal (from him/her) 9. , Do not lie (to/against him/her) 10. (and) do not covet your neighbour's.. [possessions]
5-10 are entirely based on the same "neighbor" as me tioned in line 5, it is something people do not often reflect upon. Line 10 is referring to trying to achieve the same material (or social) status as your neighbor and is not about theft.
5-10 do resemble the human instinctive traits and motivations pretty well. You also see a clear difference between the first few lines and the later.
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Post by Connor on Nov 25, 2019 19:52:27 GMT
I see it is not that to follow "compassion" blindly like a lighthouse, rather it is more about breaking out from the pre-programmed homo-sapien behaviour. However Immanuel, could you then answer this question please:
Does that mean that if for example, we existed in a simulated-world/reality as another animal species which would have had instincts/pre-programmed-behavior which was the total opposite to of that of the homo-sapien, would we then in order to go against the instincts of this hypothetical animal species, would do the opposite, by being aggressive/dominant, jealous, deceitful, etc?
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 25, 2019 20:20:34 GMT
I see it is not that to follow "compassion" blindly like a lighthouse, rather it is more about breaking out from the pre-programmed homo-sapien behaviour. However Immanuel, could you then answer this question please: Does that mean that if for example, we existed in a simulated-world/reality as another animal species which would have had instincts/pre-programmed-behavior which was the total opposite to of that of the homo-sapien, would we then in order to go against the instincts of this hypothetical animal species, would do the opposite, by being aggressive/dominant, jealous, deceitful, etc? It is about not being allowed to be yourself and use your own control and grow mentally through this. Whatever the instincts were we must stay off those. Women and men could be seen as two different species, they tend to have different instinctive problems to deal with and could be used in your allegory. Men tend to have more problems with wanting to defend territory and show physical prowess, for example. Women must look feminine, they strive to enhance their natural beauty and always have since ancient times. Both want social status in different ways. Both genders have their own gender traits to fight against which may be unique to them. I do not have the issue of wanting to look cute for example and I give a heck about how I look. Wanting to be courted is usually a female phenomenon, the male is usually expected biologically to impress on the female and then she chooses him if successful. Animals often work in the same way where it is the male's act to get the female interested. There is obviously both interested, but it is a sort of game, pretty mindless and embarrassing and I was never good at it because I already had "problems" with being driven by instincts already in early age and had hence problems acting like the animal in the act.
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Post by Connor on Nov 25, 2019 21:12:27 GMT
I do agree that the human "mating" system is no more different then any other animals, with its own set mating rituals of "to do`s" and "not-to do`s" if one wants to find a mate. For example, I noticed if I act manly girls can get interested in me, but if I show signs of weakness, even if let's say I change my voice pitch, I suddenly see how she is not interested in me any-longer even though she was like 5 minutes ago. Yeah, that's how automatic is this stuff.
Scientists say that it usually takes less then a second of glance for a female to see if she is attracted to man. And usually, it is the dominant secondary sexual characteristics which females analyze-for, like wide shoulders, small hips, bigger height, strength/athletic looking body etc. What is crazy it takes less then a second for female to analyze and determine if she sees the guy as "hot" or "not". Thats how automatic this stuff is, if I say jokingly, it is like terminators analyzing their targets. Before I would try to up my "manly" factor but now seeing how unconscious this games are I cannot participate in this games anymore.
Therefore I see that it is pretty silly to believe in "love" as the books and movies talk about. It is more like pre-programmed sets of behavior/attraction which give a pleasant chemical high in the brain which people tend to interpret as "love".
It is all IS an illusion when one gains enough Consciousness to be able to perceive it for what it is. I bet that's what Jesus meant when he allegedly said that one gets to know the world, finds a corpse, and the world/corpse is not worthy of this one.
Isn't the world like a corpse, a dead/unconscious system running on a pre-programmed set of laws/rules/instincts?
However Immanuel: If it means that the last five commandments look the way they do because of the nature of the homo-sapien instinct.
Then would it mean that if we lived on another planet as another species which had instincts total-opposite of homo-sapien instinct, then in order to go against the instinct of this hypothetical species, the last 5 commandments would look something like this ?:
5. Do not consider your neighbor like yourself 6. , Do dominate (him/her)
7. , Do exploit (him/her)
8. , Do steal (from him/her)
9. , Do lie (to/against him/her)
10. (and) do covet your neighbour's.. [possessions]
I mean, If the point of the game is to go against pre-programmed behavior of the animal-host your mind is attached to.
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 26, 2019 20:03:33 GMT
I brought up with you the male and female phenomenon to describe two somewhat different behavioral patterns of creatures so that you had more existent comparable entities. The Ten Guidelines fit for both human male and female even though both genders behave differently in different situations.
I cannot speak for a vastly opposite race which you describe, which I have no knowledge whatsoever of, your opposite guidelines seemed rather absurd, and problem is the traits described are on a collision course with what kind Elahem are expecting to join them.
The aim with the guidelines is to provide a remedy which causes the person to be the soul and not the body in which they reside by not being assimilated with it. What is important is to be yourself and not unwillingly or subconsciously driven by the body to various actions. All instinctive reactions are not necessarily evil per se, they can coincide with what is the best course of action. It is an instinct that parents, particularly the mother can be clearly aggressive, will not let a child die to danger and it is perhaps for the better to also protect this child.
It is also about what is wise in every particular situations and what is the meaning in different situations.
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Post by Connor on Nov 26, 2019 22:14:59 GMT
Immanuel, I see, yes, if we to look at males and females their biological behavior differs at points so much almost as if they are different species.
Immanuel you wrote the following : "All instinctive reactions are not necessarily evil per se, they can coincide with what is the best course of action. It is an instinct that parents, particularly the mother can be clearly aggressive, will not let a child die to danger and it is perhaps for the better to also protect this child. "
However, I thought that all instinctual behavior should be avoided at all cost, because it might Elohim who intentionally put you for example in certain situations in order to force you to do an instinctual action, if we think about it from this perspective. For example the early Christians were known for their pacifism because of the idea of Jesus` martyrdom, there were ordinary people who were not afraid of getting killed/tortured for their faith. According to an Phd. in this area, Romans at that time respected Jews more because at the least Jews showed resistance and would get up arms in order to defend their God for example. However, Romans found Christians strange and superstitious because Christians were doing illogical things from human perspective.
For example early-Christian important figure Polycorp who was allegedly student of apostle John, who was burned at the stake and pierced with a spear for refusing to burn incense to the Roman Emperor. He knew that the romans were searching for him to punish him however he did not flee the city and stayed in his house waiting for the Romans. When he heard that the roman soldiers arrived he went down and talked with and ordered food and drink to be set before them at that hour, whatever they should wish, and he
asked them to give him an hour to pray without
hindrance. To this they assented, and he stood and prayed.
From Human-Logic stand point he knew he is getting on the nerves of the Romans, he could flee (no such things as ID cards at that point), he could at least not stay in his house waiting. When they came he didnt need to be extra friendly. And in the end he could just burned the damned incense to the Roman Emperor (like Jesus said gave to Caesars whats Caesars) and just be done with it, but No! He had ignored any actions which could have saved him from getting killed. From human logic his behavior makes no sense. But from the other perspective the only way this could be explained is that he simply was under no control of the instinct of survival/self-preservation.
I think in your translation project it says to not do anything instinctual even a little bit because it then grips/corrupts ones spirit/mind. What Im trying to say is wouldnt it give more spiritual-fruit to not do anything instinctual under no circumstances? Just like you said it yourself in your example, defending ones child is a strong instinct especially amongst mothers, because apparently Oxycontin hormone improves mother-child Bond. The hormone Oxycontin is related to familial bonding in animals and is tied to love and friendship in humans. ... Now scientists find that mothers with high levels of Oxycontin during pregnancy bond better with their babies.
So we are talking chemical/hormonal reactions in the body which determine behavior, like a automatic/unconscious system. I wonder if when Elohim ordered Abraham to kill his son they were testing him if he could go against this particular instinct/pre-programmed behavior. I know I sound cold-blooded, but it seems that the best is to not get attached to anything on this planet, including people that we consider"near" to us and the nearest of them all being our body itself. If somebody for example wants to fight me, I wont activate the instinct of domination. If he hits might right cheek Ill give him the left. If he wants to rob me too, Ill give him whatever he wants because I wont activate the instinct of gathering/collection of things, like the animals collecting things. And if after all that he would like to kill my body, I wont let the instinct of self-preservation to take hold of me and just will let him kill this body. Im sure this will impress Elohim showing them that I will no longer obey any instincts that Im aware of existing, under no circumstances no "if`s" .
Therefore it might be the best to not like/attach to anything that has to do with this reality and just ignore/resist all the instincts at all times to just be done with this task and get out of this fake reality as soon as it is possible.
I will just say this, recently my mind grows to such extents that when I see parents, my tongue cant move to call them Father and Mother, when I know that it is not them who give me life or gave me this body, they did sex and the rest did higher power. And just the level of being at this point cant see them as my mother and father. How can i call them mother and father when they are just souls equal to me who happened to be attached to those two particular homo-sapien bodies and have sex through those bodies giving this homo-sapien body an existence. The homo-sapien body I`m attached to can call them "mother" and "father" if it wishes, but I wont, because this body is not me, it is like taking a diamond and putting it into melted chocolate and then calling it after a chocolate ball.
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Post by Immanuel on Nov 27, 2019 19:34:50 GMT
I gave a loose example when I wrote about that the instinct may not be evil per se and can coincide with what is the logical thing to do. It did not sanction instinctive behavior. The aggressive mother was an extreme example, yes, but I hope you get the point in it, and that was the instinct which here is to protect the child which may be simply the wisest thing to do.
This was related to that you say that anything which is instinctive must be avoided, but the fear of acting instinctly cannot override good judgment. It is wise not to over-generalize something that must be done, particularly The Manifestation (Quran) advises against strict laws because they tend to be inflexible and often lead to mindless living as one follows them slavishly. It says that one should instead always take every situation as it arises and judge as it comes (my reference is paraphrased), when we do we active our minds. That scripture does very strongly advise against habitual behavior, it is like one of its mantras.
My teaching is taken from what has been deciphered of that scripture and I have only deciphered a fraction of it.
The tale about Abraham and the son is twisted slightly, in the true account he does not carry out the execution and murdering his son was a test of soundness of his mind, that is exactly was the word e'selam (islam) stands for. The sacrifice trickery was one of his final tests before being considered a mi'selamoon meaning basically a sound/sane one, it was not the first test he had passed through in his life.
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