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Post by Immanuel on Jul 28, 2015 12:46:59 GMT
Hello,
I think I could as well begin another post and a new thread in this category. There are huge misconceptions on the matter of praying. Particularly in 'Islam' prayer involves things that would not exactly count as praying but worship such as prostration to the ground. If we consider the actual word "to pray" it means that you implore someone about something. But is "gymnastics" really required for a prayer to be valid? Is there any other way of receiving the Sustainer's favor?
The question is actually whether the Sustainer needs worship or not. What is the Sustainer? A force or Supreme Intelligence in the universe? Does it have needs or is it without needs?
A standard glorification prayer actually requires an image of something and would be against the second commandment of the old "Mosaic Law". Additionally it makes the Sustainer personified separately, gives the Sustainer needs and such a fallible feature as an ego. Do you ascribe that to the Sustainer? I would consider it making the Sustainer weak, not at all as powerful or void of all needs, because it needs prayer as a sort of ego boost. Similar behavior people of the past showed when they prostrated before their kings.
Honestly, the prayer should be what a prayer is, i.e. to implore the Sustainer about something, and there is no ego to please and one cannot "bribe" the Sustainer by some artificial physical moves or mumblings, like that is going to please it. In fact such behavior is a remnant of Paganism in which you appeased to the gods to prevent its wrath to wreak havoc upon the Earth. The question is why the Supreme Intelligence of the universe would implement such a primitive system?
Yet even without imploring the Sustainer, the Sustainer already knows what you need before you have even opened your mouth.
Matthew 6:7 In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. 6:8 Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Particularly Jesus referred to people who sit and just repeat passage after passage aimlessly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 13:07:10 GMT
Hello
From my personal perspective prayer is an important part of faith and a means to communicate with the Sustainer/God/Spirit/Lord. I believe that prayer need not be restricted to "imploring" the Lord and can be seen as a more general form of communicating with the Spirit.
In addition, I further believe that prayer is an important way to offer thanks and show one's gratitude to one's Lord.
I agree wholeheartedly with that statement, but for me the process of bringing my problems/worries to the Lord often results in a sense of peace, the process in itself is a form of catharsis.
How do you go about offering thanks to your Sustainer?
Kind Regards S~
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Post by Immanuel on Jul 28, 2015 13:54:08 GMT
It is hard to say thanks to something that does not have any needs. Besides should we thank the Sustainer for being deluded? I think it is better to save the thanks for when we are saved, if we are.
If there is something I must be appreciative of that is the Knowledge, Wisdom and Faith that I possess, but I have myself a part in that transcendence. Well, obviously the 'I AM THAT I AM' phenomenon is weird to describe since it is a symbiotic one. Good is the one who can see through the "charade" and right onto the Spirit, for then the Sustainer takes over and you "are in the Sustainer and the Sustainer in you".
I think that a better way of showing thanks that is less hypocritical is to actually utilize the blessings in the way they are intended. The Sustainer knows the thankfulness you have in your heart at any given moment.
Let us say you have Knowledge, Wisdom and Faith. How are you best used? There are millions of sheep out there without a shepherd, and deluded by even more deluded ones.
Be well
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 16:50:34 GMT
Hello,
It is hard to say thanks to something that does not have any needs.
I am not implying that the Sustainer/God/Spirit/Lord is in need of thanks. But for me gratitude is a feeling of appreciation, an appreciation of the blessings that have been issued forth from the Divine. This feeling of appreciation lifts my spirits and elevates my love for the Lord and all those around me. Luke 10:27 He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind';
While this may indeed be true, not everyone has achieved this and for these people gratitude can indeed be a powerful process, gratitude allowed me to see the power of the Spirit, its beauty, mercy and helped transcend into a different realm.
Let us say you have Knowledge, Wisdom and Faith. How are you best used? There are millions of sheep out there without a shepherd, and deluded by even more deluded ones.
For me the best answer to this question is aptly described by Confucious in the quote below.
To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right. Confucious
Kind Regards S~
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Post by Immanuel on Jul 29, 2015 8:49:55 GMT
Hello, I understand you. No problem. It is only that being thankful to the Sustainer is like being thankful of yourself. It is this strange advanced symbiotic relationship again. That is why it is generally best to show you can be an "I AM" and use such qualities that have been bestowed on you in a wise manner. Yet there is nothing preventing a person from saying things such as "Thank the Maker" for having such a wonderful Initiator (loosely interpreted Father = abua ابى). Of course everything gets complicated for someone with the intricate insight (such as me and yourself), and even harder to actually manage to pedagogically convey it to others less acquainted. Well, before you knew, it was even hard to make you understand what I meant with "I AM THAT I AM" and explain Jesus' expression "I am in the Father..." Since we know about the nature of the Sustainer that means actually we do not exist except in the Father, as long as we can "separate the spirit from the flesh" because that is not the true selves nor of the Sustainer who created it out of 'naar' for the purpose of cultivating perfect specimens who could grow up in a harsh environment with lots of thistles and other problems. The Sustainer uses the word "suffocation" in one part of chapter 36 in the real interpretation of Quran. We were seeds from the beginning, the question is what will become of these. As you have learned by the Spirit yourself, prayer is not what people generally make of it. The Father should be represented in everything that you do, like a shining light, to show that you belong to the 'children of the Father' rather than of darkness/evil (Arabic al-zalam الظلم). It is not so strange that evil and darkness uses the same vocabulary. And as you have mentioned yourself, the communication should be constant, even for those who are blinded from "hearing" (the word for hearing is sm'a سمع such in Sama'uel and I'sma'el and... . Yet the Sustainer is always with us if we choose to represent it, and the aura of the Sustainer will shine on us and the Sustainer will make us sure we have it with us. Eventually if we are released from the test in a successful manner we shall be completely "unclouded" and able to "feel" the Sustainer, always. The quote from Luke uses a word that has a more implicit meaning than the usual renditions reveal but love in this case mean that you have such a mentality to "cling unto/keep to inseparably". The passage is meant to say not be away from its affinity (of Being). You cannot be fare a different way and say you "love" the Sustainer. Yes, but if we use Wisdom to contemplate the outcome of past generations, the personification of a deity has been prone to change people into going against the actual 'Commandments' to begin with. It is against the second commandment to excessively portray the Sustainer separately but it must be in symbiosis. That is the teaching of the first commandment. We are supposed to resemble it. Become complete. Personally I judge that the Sustainer implemented the two first commandments for this reason, because to complicate things with a separate realm of deity/ies is only detrimental and a distraction. The root of the problem is actually that there is so much disinformation in the world with an incorrect portrayal of what Being is. If people become increasingly aware that the status of their spirit matters incredibly much then I think it might change people for the better. Many people, too many, think that the whole concept is built upon worship and reverence of a classical deity albeit monotheism, but this is not at all what the Sustainer expects. To think the Sustainer needs that it is like ascribing needs to this Supreme Intelligence. There honestly are many people who compulsory perform their daily prayers and think the grace will automatically be upon them as an effect of this, but the grace comes through the actions and deeds. The prayers, or glorification, or thanksgiving means little when you cannot back them up. What would you prefer if you had an employee? The one who constantly says "thank you, thank you, you are too kind" or "I revere you, master" and babbles very much at work and is always trying to complement you, but does not really do his work satisfactorily, or the one who does not say very much but has a subtle smile on his lips and carries out his work with utmost devotion? Any wise master would not care that much about the formalities but be pleased by the devotion of this worker. Now add into this that the Sustainer does not have an ego to fill. Yes, sister. You are not unwise and absolutely right, but this is another aspect of it. The point was to be a "shepherd" you have already solved the problems with yourself or at least found yourself. If you have Knowledge, Wisdom and Faith then you have the capability of helping others where it is needed. It was entirely a matter of spreading the proper Knowledge and also teaching them the application of that Knowledge (Wisdom). But the 'Confuciousian' quote is true. Everything you do starts with your own self first because you cannot tell others to live a certain way when you yourself do not. Still before you criticize someone else "you have to remove the splinter in your own eye before you remove the beam in your brother's eye". Be well
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